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Captain Tardbar
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:The simple solution to the High Sec problem of NPC Corps is pretty obvious to me, and implementing this will add content, give greater meaning to character racial choices, and overall improve the Storyline of EvE Online.
Make the NPC Corps an active part of the Faction War system. If you don't want to be an Economical or Political Faction War targetable asset, then you can always form your own corporation. Seriously, only the Training Academys and Schools should be neutral and protected. Everything else should rightfully be either a player owned corp, or a part of the Ruling Faction of their area of High Sec. Honestly, if you don't want to be involved in EvE Online just go find another game....
I know I can hear the trolls and carebears already lining up to trash this idea, but hey this is what happens in GD.
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Well there are already FW NPC corps.
Well here is the deal. People will either stay in NPC corps or they will create throw away 1 man corps which they will leave when they are war dec'd.
You could either raise taxes on NPC corps or make it impossible to leave your corp for 72 hours or something, but that will probaly result in players just docking up and then quitting because they are bored ship spinning in station.
The truth is that these incentives do not make people want to join other corps.
The reason people don't want to join corps with other people is pretty much corp theft and awoxing.
Remove that and people might want to join larger corps.
If you don't want to change that don't expect people to ever leave NPC corps and leave it at status quo.
I mean NPC corp people aren't hurting you and touching you in the bad place.
If they are you can still gank them if you put your mind to it. Get to it. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:I think the industry nerfs would be fair but this won't persuade people who don't want to be in player corps. they don't want the politics, the game running their life and they don't want to do boring activities with other people. Not important - the goal is to create gameplay where you aren't rewarded with things like free wardec immunity for not participating socially in a mmo. CCP needs to come down hard on all forms of wardec evasion, which cannot happen unless things like NPC corps (in their current form) are removed.
Look. People aren't dumb. If an industrialist doesn't want to fight he is either going to do 3 things:
1. Go back to NPC corp.
2. Start another 1 man corp.
3. Stay docked.
If the industrialist can't do 1 or 2, he'll do 3 and if he has to do 3 he might as well quit the game since there is only so much fun you can get out of watching your ships in dock. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
50
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Posted - 2013.01.29 15:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: This is worse than misunderstanding, this is a lie. There is Zero evidence that people will quit the game for anyreason except ridiculasly expensive monocles. That "carebear conventional wisdom" that people will quit the game if you change something has not only been proven false,it's been proven false RECENTLY. people swore they would quit with the NPC AI change and nerfed heavy missiles, yet I see no slackin in the carebearin.
An interesting statement which seems to indicate that you have a great deal of data on how many people quit the game or reduce accounts and their reasons. While I'm sure very little can ever come to the same level of the summer of rage, I'd be genuinely surprised if a change as widespread as this wouldn't cause at least a few people to rage quit. And where is the evidence to support this belief? It's not supported in the least by the information that is readily available (and that people like I believe Tippia and Malcanis have linked over and over again). No, that's just believe what fits your wants and needs rather than what you can prove. And it happens all the time here.
Hrm... I don't know if people will quit the game, but it is a known fact that higher taxes on NPC corps did not result in players joining player run corporation en masse. Players do start their own 1 man corps for missioning and POS stuff, but otherwise they will just drop the corp if they are war dec'd.
Forcing people out of NPC corps will just result in a bunch of one man corps that will result in less player interaction.
Beleive it or not communication and interaction happens all the time in NPC corps. There are about 500 people in the NPC corp on this alt for example and I often take time to answer players questions to help them out and even donte money to people that meet certain criteria.
Take that away and people will just be in a one man corp sitting silently in local doing whatever they do to make isk.
I suppose you could say war dec's will force one man players into larger corpoartions.
That doesn't happen now and that won't happen even if you prevent players from disbanding, leaving, and generally forcing them to keep playing with the war dec, they won't undock.
And you basically can't force people to undock.
Also, on a side note, some of the major people who earn massive amounts of isk in hi-sec are station trades who by their very nature do not undock.
Anyways, back to my previous point. You could in theory force everyone out of NPC corps into one man corps and then you could force them to stay in those corps while they are war dec'd but you can't force them to undock.
And if you are playing a game where you can't undock, you get bored and if you get bored you think about canceling your sub.
Now there is no hard scientific proof that people who can't/won't/don't undock will automatically cancel their accounts.
But if I personally played a game where I had to stay docked all day, then I'd probaly quit. And if I quit, stastically other people quit too.
Personally, I'm in FW so when I undock I'll probaly get killed in low sec somewhere, but I'm talking about the people who are in NPC corps for a reason.
There is not good way you can solve this problem by force.
You have to make player run corps and alliances more attractive to players through buffing player run corps. Not by nerfing NPC corps. That is the only way.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
52
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Posted - 2013.01.29 16:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:
Hrm... I don't know if people will quit the game, but it is a known fact that higher taxes on NPC corps did not result in players joining player run corporation en masse. Players do start their own 1 man corps for missioning and POS stuff, but otherwise they will just drop the corp if they are war dec'd.
Forcing people out of NPC corps will just result in a bunch of one man corps that will result in less player interaction.
Believe it or not communication and interaction happens all the time in NPC corps. There are about 500 people in the NPC corp on this alt for example and I often take time to answer players questions to help them out and even donte money to people that meet certain criteria.
Take that away and people will just be in a one man corp sitting silently in local doing whatever they do to make isk.
I suppose you could say war dec's will force one man players into larger corpoartions.
That doesn't happen now and that won't happen even if you prevent players from disbanding, leaving, and generally forcing them to keep playing with the war dec, they won't undock.
And you basically can't force people to undock.
Also, on a side note, some of the major people who earn massive amounts of isk in hi-sec are station trades who by their very nature do not undock.
Anyways, back to my previous point. You could in theory force everyone out of NPC corps into one man corps and then you could force them to stay in those corps while they are war dec'd but you can't force them to undock.
And if you are playing a game where you can't undock, you get bored and if you get bored you think about canceling your sub.
Now there is no hard scientific proof that people who can't/won't/don't undock will automatically cancel their accounts.
But if I personally played a game where I had to stay docked all day, then I'd probaly quit. And if I quit, stastically other people quit too.
Personally, I'm in FW so when I undock I'll probaly get killed in low sec somewhere, but I'm talking about the people who are in NPC corps for a reason.
There is no good way you can solve this problem by force.
You have to make player run corps and alliances more attractive to players through buffing player run corps. Not by nerfing NPC corps. That is the only way.
example: If your corp has more than 50 players than give like a 5% bonus in mining ore or mission LP yield to everyone in that corp.
Who exactly is talking about "interaction". i don't personally care about whether or not a person choose to interact socially with others. I'm talking about the need for CCP to ensure account holder fairness. While "fairness" is not an issue in game (all is fair in love and EVE), EVe as a product should be consistant in how it treats it's players. Saying to us " make your own destiny" then giving an option to opt out of a very key game mechanic (the ability to be war decced) is not consistent at all. If you are able to affect the game, you should be liable to negative affects as well. Allowing non-noob players to stay forever in a situation where other players must pay a high cost to disrupt them while imposing no real cost on the NPC corp player is uneven. The mission runner and explorers of NPC corps at least have to pay an elevated tax. But what cost does the miner and hauler pay? NPC corps are not just unfair to everyone else, as currently constituted, they are unfair to their own memebers. Something has to give, with new taxes and/or restrictions (like a "tax" on mining and hauling or restrictions on what kinds of ships NPC corp pilots can fly ie no tech 2 mining ships and frieghters/orcas for NPC corp members). Situations that confer signifigant advantages without conferring signifigant costs/trade offs should not be allowed in EVE online.
Well here is another thing you have to keep in mind. Player interaction in a MMO generally keep players engaged if nothing to do more than chat. MMOs that had players playing by themselves on a server even though you couldn't interact with them pvp wise anyways tend to shut down (like say Warhammer Online).
It is very important to keep subscriptions that players have some interaction. Whether this is through NPC corps or 10 man corps it doesn't really matter.
What you are agruging for would have the end result in players being forced into one man corps which simply avoid your war dec's anyways.
The end result is the same which is that players avoid war decs.
In order for players to not avoid war decs you need to have an incentive for them to join player run corps and stay in them.
Let's say you have a 10 man corp, you get 1% bonus for mining and LP gains. If you have a 100 man corp then you would have a 10% bonus for mining and LP agents. That would be a pretty decent reason to be in a large corp and to actually stay in the corp instead of quitting it every time you are war decced.
Again, nerfing NPC corps will solve nothing. Raise the tax rate. People will still stay. Kick them out and they'll just start one man corps. Allow NPC corps to be war dec'd. They'll stay docked and probaly quit out of boredom.
You can't fight human nature. You have to work with it. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
52
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Posted - 2013.01.29 16:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:People posting lots of words about how NPC corps should be fixed, and how to circumvent those fixes.
Best solution is still their outright removal.
I hear ganking and podding new players is the best way to increase subscriptions. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
52
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Posted - 2013.01.29 19:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
I posted in Features & Ideas on a possible solution to get players out of NPC corps into player run corps. It also addresses war dec avoidance.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2536640
The jist of the idea is to give player corporations skills that give bonuses to the corporation which only apply when you are a member. If the skills are exspensive enough and take long enough to train it will be an disincentive from quitting the corp and starting a new one because you'll have to start over again. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
53
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I posted in Features & Ideas on a possible solution to get players out of NPC corps into player run corps. It also addresses war dec avoidance. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2536640The jist of the idea is to give player corporations skills that give bonuses to the corporation which only apply when you are a member. If the skills are exspensive enough and take long enough to train it will be an disincentive from quitting the corp and starting a new one because you'll have to start over again. While a novel Idea, i reject ideas that "push" people to do anything. People should do what they want where they want as long as they accept the consequences of their action,s and there should be consequences. It is the game that should be consistent
Nerfing NPC corps is pushing people to do something. Its an attempt to push them out of the corp. I'm going to argue that it didn't work with taxes and won't work with anything else. You need to buff player corps and it encourages players to move out of NPC corps.
It makes being in a corp that can be wardec'd more at an advantage than being in an NPC corp. So it means if you take more risk and stick with the corporation, you'll reap an equivalent reward more suited for the level of risk you are taking.
Isn't that what you want? You want people who take more risk to be rewarded?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
59
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Posted - 2013.02.01 02:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't know.
This threadnaught has been going on and on despite my personal feelings that it should just die and go away.
The only thing that has been said in this thread has been "WAAAAH WAAAAH! I HATE THE WAY PEOPLE IN NPC CORPS PLAY! I WANT THE GAME DEVELOPERS TO CHANGE THE GAME BECAUSE THEY MAKE ME FEEL BAD ABOUT MYSELF!"
Seriously HTFU and just gank some people in NPC corps if they make you feel less of a person. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
59
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Posted - 2013.02.01 03:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:oh look it's the guy who claimed incarna was a success because player count is higher now then it was in 2010
Lies. Not one byte of text of mine proported that Incarna specifically was a sucess. I stated EvE as it is now is sucessful simply because of the highest subscription numbers ever. Sure you can chalk it up to Chinese subs, but more people are playing on the weekends (say 50,000+) are playing currently than in previous versions of the game.
I stand by my statement that EvE as it stands now is more sucessful than ever before.
Or are those 50,000 concurrent players mearly a false figure provided by CCP on the login screen to say EvE isn't dying. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |

Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
60
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Posted - 2013.02.01 04:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I stated EvE as it is now is sucessful simply because of the highest subscription numbers ever. Sure you can chalk it up to Chinese subs, .
What part of 50,000 current connected users do you not understand?
Or are you calling CCP liars?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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